- Is all, it's not all about the end product Joel, as we know because we believe, on, it's about from the very start. What is the good traits and qualities when you're looking for a good builder if people listen today in the group or what's what should people be looking out for?

- Try to find someone that is tailored to your specific needs, who's going to be able to deliver what you want but also let you know and communicate with you on what's going on at the same time. So many sort of, I dunno, I feel like us as builders aren't the best at communicating. We're good at doing and building with our hands but, when it comes to communication and having something in place, so that one, you know what's going on and two you also understand what's happening each day. Because, a lot of like, us as, a lot of clients, the first thing I get from the feedback from them is, you know, they want to know what's going on when they get home every afternoon while they're going through the renovation process. Like they come home, what did they do today? What happened today? What got done? If they can't see any progress or they're not sure what's getting done they're kind of like, well, what's happening. I feel like I'm left out of this conversation. Like, is it, they're just coming here working, they're gone before I get home, you know, is there any, like, you just sort of feel out left out and I feel like you should be a part of that experience while you're going through that renovation you should be there making decisions and they should be letting you know what's going on. And you know, this is happening and we've done this today and this has also happened and everything's going really great. Now, couple suggestions that are ideas they can give to you. But I think it's really important to find that upfront with the builder rather than try and figure that out halfway through the process of picking a builder.

- Yeah, how do you communicate with clients at an end of the day? Do you send a message or do you send an email or do you use software?

- A lot of it, a lot of it varies. Like sometimes I'll just do a quick video. So, you know, I'll just grab your phone up and go hey, you know, we did this, this and this today. Just got a couple of questions I need to ask you in the morning when I see you, it's going to be this, this and this. And it sort of gives them the night to think about it or just send them a message saying something as simple as you know, hey look, we'll back at your place tomorrow at 7:00 AM. Everything's going good and if you have any questions I'll talk to you then. Because a lot of the times, nine times out of 10, they've always got questions to ask. So, I feel like it's always good to just sort of check in with them and always just keep asking is everything okay? You know, is, is, you know, you've got any questions or something not the way you thought it was? Because, a lot of the times as a client, you've... well, as a builder I feel like you've got to poke the bear a little bit with that stuff because clients don't tend to say too much unless you ask, or, or it's too late.

- Yeah, no, I agree and I agree. And that's something that we do too is at the very start of initial meeting, we'll find out everything that's going around with the clients. So from past experience, from their journeys and the renovation game, things not renovated before, Joel. We'll ask that question and then I will listen. I'm very clear and deeply of what happened that went wrong. And it does a client that we're working for now. And it was communication with a big thing. There was not communication in a previous trade that came to the house. Electrician came and said he was coming at nine and didn't come til three o'clock. There was no message all day. The client was at home waiting for this trade to come. So we, I, I, I text, I text now all my clients most nights, a message, saying this and this would happen or a run down, quick message. Saying this would happen. Such and trade is going to be there tomorrow morning. Any problems, give me a shout. And that, people love that. They actually love to see this. And they actually think, wow, this is actually... I didn't think this, this happens. You know? And, like I said, some nights you could miss a message but it'd be first thing in the morning I would send a message back and say, Hey, this would happen last night. And any problems give me a shout. We find that If you give that great communication through the whole journey, and it's, been a game changer because people, people are giving the builders a bad rap. They come, they come, the come last, they overcharge, and..

- Do a deliver.